Hey, nice to see you here. Hope zhie doesn't mind our mini-side-discussion here.
I don't have a problem with your responding, and the reply was nicely put w/o digressing into flames and such. Always game for a civil discussion, so I'd just like to throw some responses out there to your points. Food for thought, as it were.
1) As for the socialism, I was skeptical about how much he could do being one dude, but now that there's a dem majority remaining in congress...who knows. Where the ideas come from are from the man himself. I didn't get my info from forwards (I hate those, btw!), but rather by watching him and hearing what he says. The reason why the 'joe the plumber' thing was an issue, is because he basically told the guy he is for redistribution of wealth. That is a socialist ideal, which while it may be fine for some people and some countries, I am not a fan. I dont' see us transitioning well at all. That could just be me. We'll have to see how far he gets in our pockets. I'm not against helping a fellow man in need, but that is what charity is for. I strongly feel that is NOT the job of government. They screw enough up already. Look what they did to the housing market in the name of helping the poor.
2) lol! Yeah, but alas, I am not one of the thinkers. Don't think anyone would miss me if I went on strike ;)
3) I really hope that doesn't happen. I'd never wish such a fate on another human being, so I hope they have him well-protected. Otherwise, that would just be tragic on so many levels.
4) I'm not economist, but flat taxes are interesting. I also heard an idea the other day that proposed going a step beyond that...no more percentages - taxes would be a set value for everyone. He likened it to going to the store to buy bread. It costs what it does for everyone, regardless of income or ability to pay. Not sure how that would work or what the cost should be (clearly, not so high it's burdensome for the bottom bracket), but it was something I hadn't heard before and was interesting. About punishment for the poor...I'm not rich by any means. We might just be breaking into official middle class status this year, after 14 years of farting around in the lower levels. The thing is, for a lot of years, we didn't pay taxes. Oh yeah, we paid them in throughout the year. But, we got it all back come tax time, so our net loss to federal taxes was 0. So...I ask the question that why should people who essentially pay no taxes get any breaks? I think we get too caught up in who needs and who deserves and so on, and lose sight of the simple fact that the rich earned their wealth and should likewise not be punished for their success. Just because they can 'afford' it doesn't justify it. It is not the governments, and by extention, ours to take.
In closing on taxes (yes, there is an end to my rambling) I'm actually pissed there are any taxes on income. The gov got along w/o them for decades. Pretty sure the constitution, when originally written, left out income tax as a good idea for the feds to take. There was a reason for that, and I think we're seeing it now. Yes, money needs to be collected for the government to run, but they should have never allowed it to come out of our wages. I resent that immensely. The feds are too bloated and way too involved than intended, I believe, and with all Obama's talk of doing this and that, I just see it getting worse. Here's a link for some history on taxation: http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/taxes/ustax.shtml
If there is ever a time machine invented, I'm going to go back to 1913 and kick the congress in the ass.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Re: I'll be bitter with you
Date: 2008-11-05 11:52 pm (UTC)I don't have a problem with your responding, and the reply was nicely put w/o digressing into flames and such. Always game for a civil discussion, so I'd just like to throw some responses out there to your points. Food for thought, as it were.
1) As for the socialism, I was skeptical about how much he could do being one dude, but now that there's a dem majority remaining in congress...who knows. Where the ideas come from are from the man himself. I didn't get my info from forwards (I hate those, btw!), but rather by watching him and hearing what he says. The reason why the 'joe the plumber' thing was an issue, is because he basically told the guy he is for redistribution of wealth. That is a socialist ideal, which while it may be fine for some people and some countries, I am not a fan. I dont' see us transitioning well at all. That could just be me.
We'll have to see how far he gets in our pockets. I'm not against helping a fellow man in need, but that is what charity is for. I strongly feel that is NOT the job of government. They screw enough up already. Look what they did to the housing market in the name of helping the poor.
2) lol! Yeah, but alas, I am not one of the thinkers. Don't think anyone would miss me if I went on strike ;)
3) I really hope that doesn't happen. I'd never wish such a fate on another human being, so I hope they have him well-protected. Otherwise, that would just be tragic on so many levels.
4) I'm not economist, but flat taxes are interesting. I also heard an idea the other day that proposed going a step beyond that...no more percentages - taxes would be a set value for everyone. He likened it to going to the store to buy bread. It costs what it does for everyone, regardless of income or ability to pay. Not sure how that would work or what the cost should be (clearly, not so high it's burdensome for the bottom bracket), but it was something I hadn't heard before and was interesting.
About punishment for the poor...I'm not rich by any means. We might just be breaking into official middle class status this year, after 14 years of farting around in the lower levels. The thing is, for a lot of years, we didn't pay taxes. Oh yeah, we paid them in throughout the year. But, we got it all back come tax time, so our net loss to federal taxes was 0. So...I ask the question that why should people who essentially pay no taxes get any breaks?
I think we get too caught up in who needs and who deserves and so on, and lose sight of the simple fact that the rich earned their wealth and should likewise not be punished for their success. Just because they can 'afford' it doesn't justify it. It is not the governments, and by extention, ours to take.
In closing on taxes (yes, there is an end to my rambling) I'm actually pissed there are any taxes on income. The gov got along w/o them for decades. Pretty sure the constitution, when originally written, left out income tax as a good idea for the feds to take. There was a reason for that, and I think we're seeing it now. Yes, money needs to be collected for the government to run, but they should have never allowed it to come out of our wages. I resent that immensely. The feds are too bloated and way too involved than intended, I believe, and with all Obama's talk of doing this and that, I just see it getting worse.
Here's a link for some history on taxation:
http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/taxes/ustax.shtml
If there is ever a time machine invented, I'm going to go back to 1913 and kick the congress in the ass.
Purrsia